[BEAKL] Balanced Effortless Advanced Keyboard Layout

Started by Den, 2011-Mar-08 15:26

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philippe.quesnel

Quote from: iandoug on 2020-Mar-08 23:04
Catering for this sort of function in an analyzer will require an additional metric : time. We would need some ballpark of "average", eg at 45 words per minute, the typist types x keys per second. Also some ballpark for the delays on those sort of keys. I typically shorten the default delay on KDE/X/Linux because it feels just too long before it starts repeating, but I assume the average user will just live with what is set as default.

Cheers, Ian
indeed.
there is no delay used in the dual mode I use, but it does have the drawback that it indirectly imposes a delay before you hit the next key, ie you cannot do rolls.
For example if using a dual mode shift, rolling that key with another actually means you are holding down both at the same time, so the dual mode key then acts as a modifier and instead of br you get R .
In practice it usually isn't a problem.
Hmm, might become a problem with my idea of placing dual mode shifts on home row! Oops.. I'll see how it goes.

moesasji

Quote from: philippe.quesnel on 2020-Mar-08 20:34
I do find using the shift keys difficult sometimes and by mixing the two ideas, I came up with the idea of using dualMode for shift .. on the pinkies .. on home row !
So my pinkies will ALREADY be on the Shift keys, just press/hold, no need to move the finger to the key and then press/hold !

Always great to hear that ideas trigger new lines of exploration; Note that the idea of having modifiers on the home-row has been around for some time, see for example: https://adamgordonbell.com/posts/2016-08-22-modifier-keys-in-the-home-row.html Although the idea looks great I didn't find it that comfortable as having to hold a key to act as a modifier on a frequently used key is slow in practice.

My impression is that people that have tried modifiers on the home-row generally move away from it again. As an extreme example it might be worth looking at the readme here: https://github.com/lydell/keyboard as that person has even written software to implement the home-row modifiers early on, but subsequently went for more extreme solutions (= modifiers on number row, which seems bonkers)

I personally have gone for making my modifiers (except the AltGr on Space) as sticky, which really feels great with the shift right next to the home-positions. Essentially I hit my shift, ctrl and alt-key as I would do any other key as a sequence, without holding a key. This move was large inspired by the explorations on keyboard layouts for ergodox/model01 here: https://asylum.madhouse-project.org/blog/2016/10/15/multi-purpose-keys/ (lots of ideas in the series of blog posts and well worth a read for those interested in exploring keyboard layouts)

btw) Actually in the process of trying to move myself off having AltGr on space as the press/hold does slow me down in practice. Still undecided what the best alternative is though.

philippe.quesnel

Quote from: moesasji on 2020-Mar-09 16:46
...
btw) Actually in the process of trying to move myself off having AltGr on space as the press/hold does slow me down in practice. Still undecided what the best alternative is though.
Hehe, trying things out .. then changing back to more normal ways, I know the feeling ;-)
Thank you for the references for ideas, I will look at them.

As far as the dualMode spacebar used to act as altGr, in my case, I do find that if there are too many keys to access on the alt layer, it gets tedious .. which is why I like the "LT" part of the BEAKL PLLT (pinky less Less Thumb) : moving space away from the thumbs (spacebar in my case) did reduce the intensive spacebar usage.

philippe.quesnel

Hmm, surprised about these results ...
I was fiddling with my modified MTGAP, working on LaSalle home row (AWEF JIO:), reduced keys set, partial PLLT layouts.

Comparing to BEAKL PLLT x1 which is my current favorite layout.
In KLA, I use a compound of texts alice+jonathan+prince+farm+dragonboy
and PLLT is #1 of the KLA default presets in these tests.

I was getting results were my layouts are form 0% to 4% 'better' / equal to PLLT.
Usually changes just bring small increments in the results, but
I then changed from 24keys to 26keys .. and got a layout which jumped to 10% better than everything else !

Somehow I feel there must be a mistake hahaha.
It IS missing some symbols, but I don't think this changes the results here (still have to manually do the shift layers and place all symbols .. would not do too well for programming right now I think)

    a  e  v         h  t  s          "  .  ?         !  p  w   
g  i  o SP  -   m  n  d  r  c    (  )  ;  y  [   ]  ,  k  x  z
'  =  *  u  _   f  l  q  j  b    {  &  <  /  \   +  :  >  |  }


Spacebar is my altGr key, sometimes I try using it also for B or Y (which is same key with Space !)

Am I missing something here that would "burst my bubble !" ?? ;-)
or are these results correct (with this text selection in KLA)
thx

iandoug

Quote from: philippe.quesnel on 2020-Mar-10 07:09
Am I missing something here that would "burst my bubble !" ?? ;-)
or are these results correct (with this text selection in KLA)

Did you upload correct json file?

Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: P (80)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: W (87)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: Y (89)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: K (75)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: X (88)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: Z (90)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, characters not on keyboard: kpwxyz`~@#$%^

philippe.quesnel

Quote from: iandoug on 2020-Mar-10 09:13
Did you upload correct json file?

Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: P (80)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: W (87)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: Y (89)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: K (75)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: X (88)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, duplicate character on keyboard: Z (90)
Error with mtgapLs26Sp1.6.json : mtgapLs26Sp1.6, characters not on keyboard: kpwxyz`~@#$%^
"Pop"... that's the sound of the bursting bubble ;-)
just had a quick look at the file I have on github ..
apparently, some of the characters ended up in uppercase that were not supposed to be !??
Darn, oh well. I well check it out at home and fix it .. and try again. Dunno how I missed this ! :(
I expect it should be around the same performance level as my other layouts / similar to PLLT
As far as `~@#$%^ go, I currently have only 26 symbols, so it is normal (I mentioned I need to complete the layout for missing symbols)
(I create the KLA json files from text files that contain the basics of the layout)

thank you
But that of course explains why it was doing so well .. old trick : just remove some keys from the layout, and VOILA super hot layout hahaha

philippe.quesnel

#1756
Quote from: philippe.quesnel on 2020-Mar-10 11:55
But that of course explains why it was doing so well .. old trick : just remove some keys from the layout, and VOILA super hot layout hahaha
So, yes, everything on the alt layers was uppercase ..
more sensible results now !
Oh, iandoug, how do you get those specific messages about the missing characters ?
I can see stuff on the jscript console, but not a clear, concise log like what you've shown me !

iandoug

Quote from: philippe.quesnel on 2020-Mar-10 16:27
Oh, iandoug, how do you get those specific messages about the missing characters ?

I'm using a program I wrote to check the layouts. It was written for bulk-processing the layouts and loading them into my database. So dunno what state the database is in now after various scans of assorted new and broken layouts.

Let me see if I can remove the unnecessary stuff and post it. It was designed for handling json that conformed to my desired standards regarding naming conventions etc ... suppose can comment those bits out.

Will revert later.

Cheers, Ian

philippe.quesnel

Quote
Let me see if I can remove the unnecessary stuff and post it. It was designed for handling json that conformed to my desired standards regarding naming conventions etc ... suppose can comment those bits out.

Will revert later.

Cheers, Ian
Oh, ok.. if it's not too much trouble, otherwise it's ok, I can manage 😎
Thank you

iandoug

Have put a link here on my Tools page.

Reddit drives me insane trying to enter posts or replies.

Cheers, Ian

Den

Support me on Patreon

I saw. I conquered. I came.

iandoug

Maybe this stuff should get it's own thread ... it's not BEAKL.

Den

Quote from: iandoug on 2021-Aug-02 11:54
Maybe this stuff should get it's own thread ... it's not BEAKL.

i've been thinking that for years. but apparently anything remotely to keyboards, we dumped into this topic.

the new topic could be called something like "Keyboard Designer and Analyzer" (it's up)
Support me on Patreon

I saw. I conquered. I came.

Den

Quote from: iandoug on 2021-Aug-08 00:29.Can you move these recent non-BEAKL messages to Keyboard Designer and Analyzer ?

I thought about it. Contemplating how to do it politely, or just do it while neglecting the posters' feelings.

More importantly is whether these forums have the capability.

So I should make a backup before trying.
Support me on Patreon

I saw. I conquered. I came.

iandoug

Quote from: Den on 2021-Aug-08 00:57
I thought about it. Contemplating how to do it politely, or just do it while neglecting the posters' feelings.

I meant recent messages by you and me.

mati2ooo

Hello BEAKL friends - my name's Mati and I want you to introduce my own custom version Beakl which is fully called (by me) BEAKL49MC (BEAKL is pretty much obvious heh, 4 mean it's coming from Beakl4 in about 60%, partly from Beakl15 and a little from Dvorak, link here - https://www.keyboard-design.com/layouts/100/ANSI-104-BEAKL4-Mod-Ian-AltGr-2.html , 9 means it has gone through 9 different modifications in my typing journey for almost a year, and MC which is my way to indicate recent letters I have changed).
The goal of the layout is to be effective in both English and Polish (pretty challenging I might say, which eventually I have achieved in my opinion). It's very light when it comes to type in English - there are pretty not many difficulties, it's possible to type English at about 120wpm using just touch typing without adjusting fingers to get better ergonomy. Well in Polish - things get a little bit spicy, but even so, it's quite a good masterpiece I've done to get it possible without getting much lost on English (my current average is about 90wpm). The obvious example will be the letter "Z" - in English just about 0.07%, in Polish - above 5% (second place in consonants, behind "N"), another is "J", "K". The only letter which is not that common in Polish is "F" (about 0.2%) and zero frequency of letters "X, V, Q". Ah, and do not forget about polish letters ,,Zażółć gęślą jaźń" :)

The positions of the letters in text:
z  y  o  u  k  g  m  l  p  j
h  i   e  a  f  d  s  t  n  r
/  .   ,   '   x  w c v  b  q

If you want to DM me you can use my discordname mati2ooo#0859 or text here - I'll be following your suggestions about my layout with pleasure ;)

mati2ooo

The first photo hasn't included all positions of polish letters, sorry about that.

iandoug