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neoFFL2 : Official Topic

Started by Den, 2020-Jan-31 21:00

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Official topic for the neoFFL2 rom hack by Amuseum.

Download latest version: 6.000-alpha

Read Changelog

  • allows long player names (up to 8 letters long using DTE)
  • modified mutant skills list
  • modified shops inventory and treasure items
  • boosted monster attack damage
  • corrected and made cooler names
  • toned down robot stats
  • replaced banana with heroin
  • replaced agility weapons
  • guns, cannons boost agility
  • bug fixes (major thanks to Alex J. for decompiling and debugging the combat programs)
  • improved human/mutant stat growth rate
  • Treasures (thanks to sarcoma for locating it in the ROM)
  • reduced item uses and prices
  • additional DS B monster fights
  • more Quake spells
  • new sweeping attacks
  • more focus on AGL/MANA combo
  • new starters for party
  • mutants now eat meat to gain stats

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Awesome work Den, very happy to see an official topic for this hack !

First did you go about editing the dialog in the game ?
That was one of the things I wanted to attempt with my project
But was a bit lost on how to do.

Second...I still have the game data worksheets you shared with me when I was learning about this game. Unsure if I read correctly, but have they been update with addition information ? did you edit enemy names and items/skills ?

Forth, and more of a follow did you change to properties of items ? I think I remember how to change how many uses a item has. But I have noticed you have change if an item is single target, group target, all target, and even the element (etc). I did want to play around with improving some of the skills in the game, but did not know how to get started.

Fifth, and will end questions here...the new robot party member has a new sprite. Very interested to learn how you imported or created a new sprite for the hack. 

That is all for now, will play the game some more today and give you some feedback. 

Pokemon Red 3DS-XL friend code : 1864-9639-1699 (Zeheart)



  • Daggers, multi-hit
  • raise STR, use STR for damage multiplier
    • Twice 2 hits x5 damage (early game) (was Hammer)
    • Thrice 3 hits x6 damage (mid game) (was Jitte)
    • Quint 5 hits x7 damage (end game) (was Coral sward)
  • Updated Shop listings and Treasure chests
  • bows deal bonus damage with STR
  • inventory now single line
  • fix bug - human/mutant raise stat calculations
  • human, mutant stat raise 1-3 points at a time
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monster evolution thoughts

Whereas monster transformation in FFL1 was too erratic, FFL2 is too conservative and predictable. The latter doesn't allow much upward mobility, except for a few carefully chosen situations. This means once you reach a high point, you would stop experimenting with transformation else risk falling down, because it's hard to get back up just from normal fights. Partly it's due to transformation formula, and partly the fault of encounters designed too uniformly and flat. The former would be too complex and sensitve to alter the code. Fortunately the latter can be easily modified, and may be enough to facilitate greater variance, mobility, and experimentation.

Being the same or lesser quality and prowess as the average enemies of any given world is a disadvantage to your party, because you are outnumbered and out attritioned. Your party of four facing hundreds of enemies during a mission demands that your monsters must overpower their enemies, in order for your party to succeed. Unfortunately, according to the transformation formula, your monsters would never exceed a DS level unless they eat meat with higher DS.

The uniformity of encounters is a result of all normal encounters in any world or region consisting of monsters with the same DS level. At best your monsters DS would merely match the average enemy, thus putting your party at a disadvantage.

This uniformity is particularly problematic for the first few worlds. The first world has mainly DS 1, Class A monsters. That's all there are for normal encounters. The problem with this is that transformation eventually devolves into repeatedly getting the worst monsters in the game. There is no way out of this cycle until you leave the first world. Consequently veteran players don't eat any meat until the second world. However, this shouldn't be the desired behavior. Players shoud be encouraged to eat meat right from the start.

My proposed solution is to stagger the DS levels for normal encounters on every world. Instead the 1st world's DS 111, it could be DS 112. Later worlds could have even greater variance. Instead of DS 777, it could be DS 678 or 779.

Staggering DS gives the player a chance to acquire meat that would be higher than that given world from normal encounters. Instead of waiting for specific miniboss encounters with higher DS that only occur one time in the game, players feel bad if that valuable meat didn't drop. Which would only encourage players to restart from their save until the meat did drop. That's bad behaviour to incentivize.

Staggering DS allows more natural, organic progression from low to high DS. Furthermore doesn't punish experimentation. If you can fall to low DS, then you also feel safe to know that you easily rise again.
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Monster Makeover Chart
MushroomMagicalStatusSingle, AllPsy, PoisonPoison, Sleep, ConfusePsy, Poison
FlowerMagicalStatus, HealingSingle, SweepPsy, PoisonPara, Blind, PoisonGround
TreePhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hit, SweepWeaponParaGround, StoneFire
RockPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, GroupQuake, StoneStoneChangeSoften
GolemPhysicalDamageSingle, SweepQuakeCurseChangeSoften
KnifePhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hit, SweepPoisonPoison, CurseWeapon, ChangeSoften
SlimeMagicalTank, Status, HealingSingle, Group, AllPoisonBlind, Poison, CurseGround, WeaponPetrify
WormPhysicalDamage, DebuffSingle, Sweep, AllQuakePara, BlindGroundPetrify
EyeMagicalStatusSingle, Group, AllPsy, Stone, StunPara, Sleep, Blind, Stone, StunFloatPetrify
FlyMagicalStatus, HealingSingle, GroupPoisonPoisonFloat
BeetlePhysicalDamage, Status, DebuffSingle, Multi-hit, SweepPoisonPoisonX-Poison
MothMagicalTank, Status, HealingSingle, GroupPsyParalyze, StunFloat
SquidMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, Multi-hit, Group, AllIce, Psy, PoisonPara, Blind, PoisonCold, Float
FishPhysicalDamage, DebuffSingle, SweepIceCold, Float
CrabPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hit, SweepIceWhipCold, Float, Weapon
ToadMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, SweepPsy, PoisonWhip, Poison, CursePoisonIce
SnakePhysicalDamage, StatusSingle, SweepPsy, PoisonWhip, PoisonGroundIce
TurtlePhysicalDamage, TankSingle, GroupPoisonPoisonWeapon, ChangeIce
LizardPhysicalDamageSingle, Sweep, GroupFireWhipWarm
DinoPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Sweep, Group, AllQuakeWhipIce
DragonPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Sweep, AllFire, ElementsWhipWarm, Float
WyrmMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, Sweep, GroupPsy, Poison, StormBlind, PoisonFloat
EagleMagicalDamageSingle, SweepStormBlind, StoneFloat
RavenMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, Group, AllStorm, Psy, WeaponBlind, ConfuseFloat
CatPhysicalDamageSingle, SweepIceCurse, Blind, Stun
HorsePhysicalDamageSingle, GroupPsy, Poison, FirePara, Slep, Conf
GriffonPhysicalDamage, HealingSingle, GroupStormFloat
SpiderMagicalDamage, Status, DebuffSingle, Multi-hit, GroupPsy, Poison, StormPara, PoisonFloat, Poison
WereratPhysicalDamage, HealingSingle, Group
MedusaMagicalStatusSingle, Sweep, GroupPsy, Poison, StonePoison, Stone, Confuse
GoblinPhysicalDamageSingle, GroupIce, StormPara
FiendMagicalStatusSingle, Sweep, GroupPsy, FireSleep, StunWarm, Float
SpriteMagicalDamage, HealingGroup, AllIce, Storm, PsySleepFloat
SkeletonPhysicalDamage, Tank, HealingSingle, SweepWeapon, ChangeFire, Dispel
ZombiePhysicalDamage, StatusSingle, GroupPsy, PoisonPara, PoisonPsy, PoisonFire, Dispel
GhostMagicalStatus, HealingSingle, GroupPsy, IceSleepFloatFire, Dispel
NinjaPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hitSword, Dagger
GangPhysicalDamageSingle, Multi-hitJutsu, Counter
KnightPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, GroupShield, Sword, Spear
TerroristPhysicalDamageSingle, SweepGun, Axe
ConjurerMagicalDamageGroup, AllBook, Staff
RoboPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Sweep, GroupGun, Bow
MechBugPhysicalDamageSingle, GroupGun, Cannon, Whip
PlasmaMagicalTank, Status, HealingSingle, Group, AllPoisonBlind, Poison, CurseGround, Psy, Poison, WeaponPetrify
GrippeMagicalStatusSingle, GroupPoisonPoisonPoison
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Yeah, awesome to see that you are looking more into the party monster growth mechanic !
I tried my best to balance this when I was learning this game.
So does the DS level of monster meat effect what a monster evolves into ?
It took a while for me to get the "Meat-Drop" and "Item-Drop" enemies to feel just right.
Tried to give enemies attacks that made since with the way there sprites looked  ^_^"

Also, really nice to hear you are giving monster classes their own personality !
And yes...I sort of gave up on monster meat for the first world.
No matter what combination was eaten...the monster would always be a bit weaker.

Again, very interested in learning your process once you have finished tweaking the hack.
Still a few things I want to learn from you and experiment with !

Pokemon Red 3DS-XL friend code : 1864-9639-1699 (Zeheart)


Reallocation of monster skills by functions

New Monster skills by Amounts
5Physical, Single, 8-16
3Physical, Whip, 10-14
4Physical, Multi-hit
3Physical, Sweep, 8-14
3Physical, Group, 8-12
2Physical, All, Explode, 200, 1200
3Magical, Multi-hit
8Magical, Single, Elemental
8Elemental spell, Sweep
8Elemental spell, Group
8Elemental spell, All
8Status, Single
8Status, Sweep
8Status, Group
8Status, All
6Defense, Counter, Reflect
4Cure, Heal, Remedy, Revive
2Drain life
1Stat de/buff
3Magical, Group, hit weakness by type
4Other, warning, surprise, teleport, steal
12Resistance, Weakness

Explode was originally only available to Beholder. a DS B monster. That means the party will never encounter an enemy with this skill. So let's create smaller versions of Explode that will be found on monsters encountered by party. Hopefully adds some fun and interesting moments in battle.

Create new monster rivalries. They have skills that deal extra damage to rivals.
Using Magical, Group, hit weakness by type

 Hard  Petrify  Soft
 Soft  Soften  Hard
 Morph  Dispel  Undead
 Mosquito  BrainDed  Human, Mutant

Elements and status ailments revisited

Resistance will not prevent 100% damage or chances; only halve the damage or chance to apply status ailments. Weakness will double the damage or the chance to apply ailments.

A few skills apply both a resistance and a weakness of opposing elements. (Will have to rewrite a lot of code, but hopefully it works out.)

Combo Resist / Weakness
 O-Cold  O-Ice / X-Fire
 O-Warm  O-Fire / X-Ice
 O-Float  O-Quake / X-Storm
 O-Ground  O-Storm / X-Quake

Since these elements provide weaknesses in such ways, pure weaknesses to these elements may be replaced with other elements. To provide new interactions and counterplays. In particular the elements that grant status ailments would get weaknesses, such that these ailments may be more successfully applied to enemies.

Miscellaneous Weaknesses
 X-Petrify  X-Poison  X-Psy

All 8 Elements--Poison, Storm, Ice, Fire, Quake, Weapon, Petrify, Psychic--get damaging spells of varying scope. With resistance changes should add more variance and variety to combat.
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Physical Attacks
 Single: Bash Bite Kick Strike Stomp
 Whiplike: Spook Lash Grab
 Multi-hit: 2-Strike 3-Strike 4-Strike 6-Strike
 Sweep: Pincer Tail Sweep
 Group: Pierce Roll Charge
 Suicide: Blow Up Explode
 Multi-hit Mana: DualStab QuadBlow OctoSlap

Elemental Spells
 Bio Venom Necrosis Acid ToxicGas
 Storm Gust Whirl Thunder Tornado
 Ice Chill Blizzard Ice Abs.Zero
 Fire Scald Flame Fire Flare
 Quake Erupt Quake Mudslide Upheaval
 Weapon Propel Cleave Beam Ultima
 Petrify Fossil Cement Desicate Drought
 Psychic P-Strike P-Wave P-Beam P-Blast

Ailmental Spells
 Petr Petrify Petrify Stone StonGaze StoneGas
 Weak Fire Weaken Enfeeble Curse MeltSkin
 Blnd Storm Blind Sand Ink Glare
 Stun Weapon Stun Erase Banish FatalGas
 Slep Psychic Sleep Slumber Snooze SleepGas
 Froz Ice Freeze FirmHold Paralyze Suspend
 Pois Bio Poison Infect Contagin Epidemic
 Conf Quake Confuse Rattle Charm MadSong

 O-Cold  O-Warm  O-Float  O-Ground
 O-Psy  O-Bio
 O-All  O-Weapon  O-Death  OElement
 X-Petrify  X-Bio
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[[Mutant stat gain new method]]
  • Mutants could gain stat from eating meat
  • Stat of meat varies by 36 family
    • more AGL, MANA families
    • fewer STR, DEF
  • Meat drop chance
  • per monster = 0.2
  • per battle up to ~ 0.488
  • Compare mutant current stat vs meat DS
  • Roll against mutant stat growth table
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Something cool for Humans would be taijutsu combos. When a Human attacks with any taijutsu attack, instead all taijutsu items he/she equipped will also trigger in the same attack. So kind of like multihit. But should be better than that, because this consumes several items' usage count. So maybe when an enemy dies, the combo continues onto next monster in same group.
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Oh my, I have been away from home these past few weeks...and return to all of these cool ideas !!
I really don't know where to start
But let me thank you again with your help with the Meat/Item Drop formula.
Finally have time to play around with it.

Very excited to see all of the new skill functions !
I always felt the game was not diverse enough, in this regard.
Looking forward to trying out the variety of skills available.

Gotta say, the Mutant-Class eating meats to force STAT-Ups is brilliant.
I wonder if this could be used to even force certain skills to be learned ?

The Human, Naruto-Rock Lee, Taijutsu combos seem interesting.
Though sounds very tricky to implement.

Do you plan to make a video showing off some of these ideas ?

Pokemon Red 3DS-XL friend code : 1864-9639-1699 (Zeheart)


For the Robot #2 (aka Monitor) Borrowed sprite from FFL3 Monitor.

Speaking of sprites, there are a bunch of tiles that are just heart icons. Maybe could replace those superfluous hearts icons for new weapon types and other symbols in UI.
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  -- ROBO-28 ; Grenade (was Rocket)

  -- Monitor sprite (from FFL3 Monitor) ; replaced @10800 – 108FF ; ID # 0x48

  -- Shop items
    -- Venus City Right : Add Ogre Axe (was Mythril Sword)
    -- Race Circuit / Hana Village : Add Vulcan Cannon (was Ogre Axe)
    -- Edo Weapon / Final Town B : Add Ogre Axe (was Vulcan Cannon)

   -- Hecate Helm (was Boot) ; Def +8, Mana +15
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-- mutant eat meat to gain stats (was use item in battle)
  -- monster stat type, 2 bits per family * 36 families = 9 bytes, @33FF3 - 33FFB
  -- Families count
    -- MANA = 13
    -- AGL = 13
    -- STR = 10
    -- DEF = 5

-- mutant skills list
  -- Charm (was Warning)

-- mutant starter skills
  -- Mutant M: Fire (was Flame)
  -- Mutant F: PsiForce (was Blizzard)

-- Remove DNA
  -- Plague gains Gas
-- Remove Multiply
  -- Plague, Pathogen, Corpuscl gain Mirror

-- OdinCrow 100% chance drop meat

--Human and Mutant stat growth rate
       --HP: 2%+8% per level
       --Str, Agl, Mana: 2%+24% per level
       --Skill: 16%+20% per level
       --HP: 2%+16% per level
       --Str, Agl, Mana, Def: 2%+48% per level
    --new: 00 00 04 10 04 30 04 30 04 30 00 00 00 00 00 00
             20 28 04 20 04 60 04 60 04 60 04 60 00 00 00 00
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[[Mutant Musings]]

Mutants are too consistent, repetitive, unchanging. Needs more compelled, involuntary shakeup.

Robots need to constantly upgrade with better gear. Humans weapons will run out and need to be replaced. Monsters evolve to different monsters with all new skill sets. On the contrary, Mutants can go through the whole game with the same three skills.

Again compare FFL1 was too chaotic, and FFL2 was too safe. But we can split the difference to make FFL2 Mutants less predictable and repetitive. One method is each skill has increasing chances to be replaced.

= #1 skill = 0% (never replaced, safe to keep)
= #2 skill = 12%
= #3 skill = 25%
= #4 skill = 100% replaced if all above skills failed rolls for replacement

So #1 skill will never be replaced. #2 and #3 have 12% and 25% chances, respectively, of getting replaced. Then #4 will be the fallback skill to be replaced when all previous skills remain the same. This way Mutants cannot rely on the same skills throughout the entire game. Would make them more exciting, mutating.

[[Other minor balance changes]]

- PsiForce uses halved
- More AGL monsters, fewer STR
? Lower DS requirements ?
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Whew...been a rough week  >_<"
Tornados are no joke and have power again.
Anyhow, make have to pick your brain on how to edit these "Heart Icons" later

Also, looks like the game had a few updates since I was last online !
Looking forward to how Monster-Meat works with mutants now.
So it looks like Mutants gain stats upon eating meat
Would they also be able to learn a set skill/trait with this method ?

Very happy to see that you are sharing your progress with your hack !
It brings lots of excitement and joy when I notice the changelog has been updated.

Pokemon Red 3DS-XL friend code : 1864-9639-1699 (Zeheart)


neoFFL2 6-000 is massive overhaul to monster skills. Consequently mutants also get new abilities list. Also mutants learning new skill may replace second to fourth skill. (First always safe, unchanging. Second skill low chance to replace, fourth skill higher chance.)

All planned modifications are almost complete. Left to-do is revise monster stats for balance, and encounters table for later worlds. A new unique skill (Panacea) not yet coded. Hence need your help to playtest.

Download and play neoFFL2 6-000-alpha (title screen should read v6-00A):

Change log (read section v6-000):

New Skills Chart:

For details on new skills and monsters, see neoItems and neoMonsters tab in the spreadsheet:

You can post comments on GameFAQS or official neoFFL2 forums:
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First off, very relieved to know that you and the other forum members have survived the first wave of Covid-19.
Second, excited to check out this new build.
Third, will you be updating your information over at romhacking :

Again, glad that the site/forum is back up !
Would it be possible to make a "Discord" for this project ?
Just in case the site has to go down again.

Pokemon Red 3DS-XL friend code : 1864-9639-1699 (Zeheart)


Note that some item properties are independent from their effects. Thus one may create a weapon that has special properties. Like a dagger that also has Surprise. Could be ideas for unique items.
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I don't use Discord; and probably not worth creating a new channel. You can also discuss at GameFAQS.
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Okay, just a fan of following Discord forum projects myself.
If you ever desire creating one from this let me know.
Also, I got permission to update the romhacking page for this hack.
Should now have all of the current information posted now.
Oh and I have played the hack a bit. 
Seems that the starting area enemies are a bit stronger ?

Pokemon Red 3DS-XL friend code : 1864-9639-1699 (Zeheart)


Quote from: break on 2021-Aug-25 08:34
Oh and I have played the hack a bit. 
Seems that the starting area enemies are a bit stronger ?

The original game, some starter monsters did 0 zero damage to your party. So I buffed them to actually do some damage. It could take a while to out-level them, until they do minimal damage again.

Which means when you transform into them, your monsters shouldn't feel weak, either.
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Some new thoughts (also posted on GameFAQs):

[[Meat drop from bosses]]

Another idea just came up. What if world bosses dropped meat? Mutants may learn one of the boss's skill, and monsters may get strong DS upgrade. (Perhaps another DS B meat? From Apollo or Minion.) Actually this only works safely for bosses who don't use weapons and armors, namely Ashura, Venus, Minion, and Apollo. (Unless I filter out weapons before granting to Mutants. Actually, does that sound neat, for Mutants to pick up items this way?)

Quote[[Human bonus]]

Then how to make Humans stand out? I could grant bonuses for certain weapon types, like Robots with guns. (But this requires more space in the code, which is already very crowded.) Specifically bonus to melee weapons (cf. ranged weapons for Robots). Either better hit chance or more damage or both. For daggers, bonus chance for extra hits.

Quote[[Monster starters]]

Are you satisfied with the starter monsters? Originally Slime, Baby-D, Imp. Now in v 6.0alpha, Snapper (Tortoise) and Imp (Fiend). Where Snapper is physical bruiser and imp magical damage and ailment. Should they be replaced?

I'm thinking of changing it up. In addition that one class B and one class C, would hint or foreshadow as the same family of monsters that are also excellent choices in the end game. With the following criteria to balance both starters:

(1) Magical support. Has Cure and damaging spell.

(2) Physical bruiser. Has strong single attack and self-defense.

#1 is very apparently a mini-Sprite (call it "Pixie"). class C. Gets Gust, Cure, O-Float.

#2 would then be class B. Several candidates families:

- Woodman - "Golem" - Strike, Blow Up
- WereRat - "Kitsune" - Strike, Recover
- Rhino - "Armodilo" - Strike, Defend
- Zombie - "Corpse" - Bash, PoiSkin

I'd probably replace Snapper & Imp with ... Pixie & Kitsune. Great survival in the now-harsher First World.

Does this change sound good?

Quote[[Monster difficulty]]

Difficulty is proportionate in this game. Players want their own monsters to be stronger. But that means enemies also get stronger. Since they are one and the same.

So the spike of difficulty in the First World is a natural consequence of boosting early monsters for your own party's usage.

Another line of thinking is whether early monsters should get attacks that target group, sweep, or all enemies. On one hand it will benefit your own monsters to kill easier and faster when enemies arrive in hordes. On the other hand, enemy monsters could also kill your party faster, too, as they deal damage to multiple party members simultaneously.

Although as you hinted, we could raise the monsters' prowess as above, meanwhile reduce the sizes of enemy groups per encounter. Theoretically aggregate power of enemy encounters remains the same, but individual monsters (that is for your party) get relatively higher value. Since the difference in army size between your party versus the enemies narrows. (Because it can seem unfair, if like ten enemies get to go first before one of your party member does.)

Quote[[Magi reimagined]]

Do magi need to be reviewed and enhanced?

- Additional utilities? along the lines of Warning, Surprise, Recover ...
- More elements? This would dilute the existing elemental Magi ...
- Unless one magi holds two different elements. so 4 magi covers all 8 elements ... (because not enough room in database for new items?)
- Remember magi enhances elemental spell damage and defense against that element, and grants ailment immunity associated with that element

- possible pairings by theme. Preferably rename them with single words, preceded by Magi icon -- here denoted by parentheses ():

((in-game hex code matches))
= ()Soil = Bio/Qua = 0x11
= ()Torrent = Sto/Wea = 0x22
= ()Stasis = Ice/Pet = 0x44
= ()Temper = Fir/Psy = 0x88

((ailment immunity))
= ()Inferno = Fir/Sto = weak, blnd = reduces stats
= ()Death = Pet/Wea = petr, stun = instant death
= ()Paralyz = Ice/Psy = froz, slep = can't move
= ()Soil = Bio/Qua = pois, conf = other

((element opposition))
= ()Heat = Fir/Ice = hot/cold
= ()Gravity = Sto/Qua = air/ground
= ()Force = Wea/Psy = physical/mental
= ()Matter = Pet/Bio = stone/life

Which group do you prefer? Opposite elements is most intuitive. Ailment immunity is easier to use defensively. Hex code is easier to code, and somewhat "random".

Quote[[Targeting Icons]]

Should make new icons to denote the targeting type, that would aid players' decisions:
= single = dot
= sweep = arrows left-right
= group = arrows up-down
= all = arrows 4-directions

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