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Author Topic: neoFFL2 : Official Topic  (Read 1006 times)

Den

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neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« on: 2020-Feb-01 00:00 »
Official topic for the neoFFL2 rom hack by Amuseum.

Download latest version: 5.300

Read Changelog

Summary of alterations:
* allows long player names (up to 8 letters long using DTE)
* modified mutant skills list
* modified shops inventory and treasure items
* boosted monster attack damage
* corrected and made cooler names
* toned down robot stats
* replaced banana with heroin
* replaced agility weapons
* guns, cannons boost agility
* bug fixes (major thanks to Alex J. for decompiling and debugging the combat programs)
* improved human/mutant stat growth rate
* Treasures (thanks to sarcoma for locating it in the ROM)
* reduced item uses and prices
* additional DS B monster fights
* more Quake spells
* new sweeping attacks
* more focus on AGL/MANA combo
* new starters for party
* mutants now eat meat to gain stats
« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-03 01:18 by Den »
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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #1 on: 2020-Feb-01 09:10 »
Awesome work Den, very happy to see an official topic for this hack !

First question...how did you go about editing the dialog in the game ?
That was one of the things I wanted to attempt with my project
But was a bit lost on how to do.

Second...I still have the game data worksheets you shared with me when I was learning about this game. Unsure if I read correctly, but have they been update with addition information ?

Third...how did you edit enemy names and items/skills ?

Forth, and more of a follow up...how did you change to properties of items ? I think I remember how to change how many uses a item has. But I have noticed you have change if an item is single target, group target, all target, and even the element (etc). I did want to play around with improving some of the skills in the game, but did not know how to get started.

Fifth, and will end questions here...the new robot party member has a new sprite. Very interested to learn how you imported or created a new sprite for the hack. 

That is all for now, will play the game some more today and give you some feedback. 

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #2 on: 2020-Feb-02 05:04 »
2020/02/02

v5-201
-- Daggers, multi-hit
   -- raise STR, use STR for damage multiplier
   -- Twice 2 hits x5 damage (early game) (was Hammer)
   -- Thrice 3 hits x6 damage (mid game) (was Jitte)
   -- Quint 5 hits x7 damage (end game) (was Coral sward)
-- Updated Shop listings and Treasure chests
-- bows deal bonus damage with STR
-- inventory now single line
-- fix bug - human/mutant raise stat calculations
-- human, mutant stat raise 1-3 points at a time

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #3 on: 2020-Feb-03 22:31 »
monster evolution thoughts

Whereas monster transformation in FFL1 was too erratic, FFL2 is too conservative and predictable. The latter doesn't allow much upward mobility, except for a few carefully chosen situations. This means once you reach a high point, you would stop experimenting with transformation else risk falling down, because it's hard to get back up just from normal fights. Partly it's due to transformation formula, and partly the fault of encounters designed too uniformly and flat. The former would be too complex and sensitve to alter the code. Fortunately the latter can be easily modified, and may be enough to facilitate greater variance, mobility, and experimentation.

Being the same or lesser quality and prowess as the average enemies of any given world is a disadvantage to your party, because you are outnumbered and out attritioned. Your party of four facing hundreds of enemies during a mission demands that your monsters must overpower their enemies, in order for your party to succeed. Unfortunately, according to the transformation formula, your monsters would never exceed a DS level unless they eat meat with higher DS.

The uniformity of encounters is a result of all normal encounters in any world or region consisting of monsters with the same DS level. At best your monsters DS would merely match the average enemy, thus putting your party at a disadvantage.

This uniformity is particularly problematic for the first few worlds. The first world has mainly DS 1, Class A monsters. That's all there are for normal encounters. The problem with this is that transformation eventually devolves into repeatedly getting the worst monsters in the game. There is no way out of this cycle until you leave the first world. Consequently veteran players don't eat any meat until the second world. However, this shouldn't be the desired behavior. Players shoud be encouraged to eat meat right from the start.

My proposed solution is to stagger the DS levels for normal encounters on every world. Instead the 1st world's DS 111, it could be DS 112. Later worlds could have even greater variance. Instead of DS 777, it could be DS 678 or 779.

Staggering DS gives the player a chance to acquire meat that would be higher than that given world from normal encounters. Instead of waiting for specific miniboss encounters with higher DS that only occur one time in the game, players feel bad if that valuable meat didn't drop. Which would only encourage players to restart from their save until the meat did drop. That's bad behaviour to incentivize.

Staggering DS allows more natural, organic progression from low to high DS. Furthermore doesn't punish experimentation. If you can fall to low DS, then you also feel safe to know that you easily rise again.
« Last Edit: 2020-Feb-19 16:14 by Den »

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #4 on: 2020-Feb-03 22:37 »
monster makeover chart

FamilyEnergyRoleScopeElementAilmentResistanceWeakness
MushroomMagicalStatusSingle, AllPsy, PoisonPoison, Sleep, ConfusePsy, Poison
FlowerMagicalStatus, HealingSingle, SweepPsy, PoisonPara, Blind, PoisonGround
TreePhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hit, SweepWeaponParaGround, StoneFire
RockPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, GroupQuake, StoneStoneChangeSoften
GolemPhysicalDamageSingle, SweepQuakeCurseChangeSoften
KnifePhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hit, SweepPoisonPoison, CurseWeapon, ChangeSoften
SlimeMagicalTank, Status, HealingSingle, Group, AllPoisonBlind, Poison, CurseGround, WeaponPetrify
WormPhysicalDamage, DebuffSingle, Sweep, AllQuakePara, BlindGroundPetrify
EyeMagicalStatusSingle, Group, AllPsy, Stone, StunPara, Sleep, Blind, Stone, StunFloatPetrify
FlyMagicalStatus, HealingSingle, GroupPoisonPoisonFloat
BeetlePhysicalDamage, Status, DebuffSingle, Multi-hit, SweepPoisonPoisonX-Poison
MothMagicalTank, Status, HealingSingle, GroupPsyParalyze, StunFloat
SquidMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, Multi-hit, Group, AllIce, Psy, PoisonPara, Blind, PoisonCold, Float
FishPhysicalDamage, DebuffSingle, SweepIceCold, Float
CrabPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hit, SweepIceWhipCold, Float, Weapon
ToadMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, SweepPsy, PoisonWhip, Poison, CursePoisonIce
SnakePhysicalDamage, StatusSingle, SweepPsy, PoisonWhip, PoisonGroundIce
TurtlePhysicalDamage, TankSingle, GroupPoisonPoisonWeapon, ChangeIce
LizardPhysicalDamageSingle, Sweep, GroupFireWhipWarm
DinoPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Sweep, Group, AllQuakeWhipIce
DragonPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Sweep, AllFire, ElementsWhipWarm, Float
WyrmMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, Sweep, GroupPsy, Poison, StormBlind, PoisonFloat
EagleMagicalDamageSingle, SweepStormBlind, StoneFloat
RavenMagicalDamage, StatusSingle, Group, AllStorm, Psy, WeaponBlind, ConfuseFloat
CatPhysicalDamageSingle, SweepIceCurse, Blind, Stun
HorsePhysicalDamageSingle, GroupPsy, Poison, FirePara, Slep, Conf
GriffonPhysicalDamage, HealingSingle, GroupStormFloat
SpiderMagicalDamage, Status, DebuffSingle, Multi-hit, GroupPsy, Poison, StormPara, PoisonFloat, Poison
WereratPhysicalDamage, HealingSingle, Group
MedusaMagicalStatusSingle, Sweep, GroupPsy, Poison, StonePoison, Stone, Confuse
GoblinPhysicalDamageSingle, GroupIce, StormPara
FiendMagicalStatusSingle, Sweep, GroupPsy, FireSleep, StunWarm, Float
SpriteMagicalDamage, HealingGroup, AllIce, Storm, PsySleepFloat
SkeletonPhysicalDamage, Tank, HealingSingle, SweepWeapon, ChangeFire, Dispel
ZombiePhysicalDamage, StatusSingle, GroupPsy, PoisonPara, PoisonPsy, PoisonFire, Dispel
GhostMagicalStatus, HealingSingle, GroupPsy, IceSleepFloatFire, Dispel
NinjaPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Multi-hitSword, Dagger
GangPhysicalDamageSingle, Multi-hitJutsu, Counter
KnightPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, GroupShield, Sword, Spear
TerroristPhysicalDamageSingle, SweepGun, Axe
ConjurerMagicalDamageGroup, AllBook, Staff
RoboPhysicalDamage, TankSingle, Sweep, GroupGun, Bow
MechBugPhysicalDamageSingle, GroupGun, Cannon, Whip
PlasmaMagicalTank, Status, HealingSingle, Group, AllPoisonBlind, Poison, CurseGround, Psy, Poison, WeaponPetrify
GrippeMagicalStatusSingle, GroupPoisonPoisonPoison
« Last Edit: 2020-Feb-21 02:51 by Den »

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #5 on: 2020-Feb-05 22:33 »
Yeah, awesome to see that you are looking more into the party monster growth mechanic !
I tried my best to balance this when I was learning this game.
So does the DS level of monster meat effect what a monster evolves into ?
It took a while for me to get the "Meat-Drop" and "Item-Drop" enemies to feel just right.
Tried to give enemies attacks that made since with the way there sprites looked  ^_^"

Also, really nice to hear you are giving monster classes their own personality !
And yes...I sort of gave up on monster meat for the first world.
No matter what combination was eaten...the monster would always be a bit weaker.

Again, very interested in learning your process once you have finished tweaking the hack.
Still a few things I want to learn from you and experiment with !

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #6 on: 2020-Feb-15 04:48 »
Reallocation of monster skills by functions.

AmountSkills
5Physical, Single, 8-16
3Physical, Whip, 10-14
4Physical, Multi-hit
3Physical, Sweep, 8-14
3Physical, Group, 8-12
2Physical, All, Explode, 200, 1200
3Magical, Multi-hit
8Magical, Single, Elemental
8Elemental spell, Sweep
8Elemental spell, Group
8Elemental spell, All
8Status, Single
8Status, Sweep
8Status, Group
8Status, All
6Defense, Counter, Reflect
4Cure, Heal, Remedy, Revive
2Drain life
1Stat de/buff
3Magical, Group, hit weakness by type
4Other, warning, surprise, teleport, steal
12Resistance, Weakness
1Recover


Explode was originally only available to Beholder. a DS B monster. That means the party will never encounter an enemy with this skill. So let's create smaller versions of Explode that will be found on monsters encountered by party. Hopefully adds some fun and interesting moments in battle.

Rivalries
Create new monster rivalries. They have skills that deal extra damage to rivals.
Using Magical, Group, hit weakness by type

UserSkillRival
 Hard  Petrify  Soft
 Soft  Soften  Hard
 Morph  Dispel  Undead
 Mosquito  BrainDed  Human, Mutant


Elements and status ailments revisited

Resistance will not prevent 100% damage or chances; only halve the damage or chance to apply status ailments. Weakness will double the damage or the chance to apply ailments.

A few skills apply both a resistance and a weakness of opposing elements. (Will have to rewrite a lot of code, but hopefully it works out.)

SkillFunction
 O-Cold  O-Ice / X-Fire
 O-Warm  O-Fire / X-Ice
 O-Float  O-Quake / X-Storm
 O-Ground  O-Storm / X-Quake


Since these elements provide weaknesses in such ways, pure weaknesses to these elements may be replaced with other elements. To provide new interactions and counterplays. In particular the elements that grant status ailments would get weaknesses, such that these ailments may be more successfully applied to enemies.

 X-Petrify  X-Poison  X-Psy


All 8 Elements--Poison, Storm, Ice, Fire, Quake, Weapon, Petrify, Psychic--get damaging spells of varying scope. With resistance changes should add more variance and variety to combat.
« Last Edit: 2020-Feb-22 05:16 by Den »

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[neoFFL2] Skill Names
« Reply #7 on: 2020-Feb-19 16:02 »
Attacks
 Single: Bash Bite Kick Strike Stomp
 Whiplike: Spook Lash Grab
 Multi-hit: 2-Strike 3-Strike 4-Strike 6-Strike
 Sweep: Pincer Tail Sweep
 Group: Pierce Roll Charge
 Suicide: Blow Up Explode
 Multi-hit Mana: DualStab QuadBlow OctoSlap

ElementSingleSweepGroupAll
 Poison Venom Necrosis Acid ToxicGas
 Storm Gust Whirl Thunder Tornado
 Ice Chill Frost Ice Abs.Zero
 Fire Scald Flame Fire Flare
 Quake Upthrust Erupt Mudslide Upheaval
 Weapon Propel Cleave Beam Ultima
 Petrify Fossil Cement Desicate Drought
 Psychic P-Strike P-Wave P-Beam P-Blast

AilmentSingleSweepGroupAll
 Petr Petrify Stone StonGaze StoneGas
 Curs Curse Hex CursGaze CursSong
 Blnd Blind Sand Ink Glare
 Stun Stun Erase Banish FatalGas
 Slep Sleep Slumber Snooze SleepGas
 Para Paralyze Tie Up Wind Up Suspend
 Pois Poison Infect Contagin Epidemic
 Conf Confuse Riddle Charm MadSong

Resistance/Weakness
 O-Cold  O-Warm  O-Float  O-Ground
 O-Psy/Poi  X-Petrify  X-Poison  X-Psy
 O-All O-Weapon  O-Change  OElement
« Last Edit: 2020-Feb-22 06:23 by Den »

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[neoFFL2] Mutant Stat Growth
« Reply #8 on: 2020-Feb-23 19:19 »
[[Mutant stat gain new method]]
. Mutants could gain stat from eating meat
. Stat of meat varies by 36 family . more AGL, MANA families . fewer STR, DEF
, Meat drop chance , per monster = 0.2 , per battle up to ~ 0.488
. Compare mutant current stat vs meat DS
. Roll against mutant stat growth table
« Last Edit: 2020-Feb-28 00:38 by Den »

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #9 on: 2020-Feb-25 17:53 »
Something cool for Humans would be taijutsu combos. When a Human attacks with any taijutsu attack, instead all taijutsu items he/she equipped will also trigger in the same attack. So kind of like multihit. But should be better than that, because this consumes several items' usage count. So maybe when an enemy dies, the combo continues onto next monster in same group.

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #10 on: 2020-Feb-26 18:11 »
@Den

Oh my, I have been away from home these past few weeks...and return to all of these cool ideas !!
I really don't know where to start
But let me thank you again with your help with the Meat/Item Drop formula.
Finally have time to play around with it.

Very excited to see all of the new skill functions !
I always felt the game was not diverse enough, in this regard.
Looking forward to trying out the variety of skills available.

Gotta say, the Mutant-Class eating meats to force STAT-Ups is brilliant.
I wonder if this could be used to even force certain skills to be learned ?

The Human, Naruto-Rock Lee, Taijutsu combos seem interesting.
Though sounds very tricky to implement.

Do you plan to make a video showing off some of these ideas ?

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #11 on: 2020-Feb-28 00:13 »
For the Robot #2 (aka Monitor) Borrowed sprite from FFL3 Monitor.

Speaking of sprites, there are a bunch of tiles that are just heart icons. Maybe could replace those superfluous hearts icons for new weapon types and other symbols in UI.

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #12 on: 2020-Feb-28 04:10 »
--v5-202
  -- ROBO-28 ; Grenade (was Rocket)

  -- Monitor sprite (from FFL3 Monitor) ; replaced @10800 – 108FF ; ID # 0x48

  -- Shop items
    -- Venus City Right : Add Ogre Axe (was Mythril Sword)
    -- Race Circuit / Hana Village : Add Vulcan Cannon (was Ogre Axe)
    -- Edo Weapon / Final Town B : Add Ogre Axe (was Vulcan Cannon)

   -- Hecate Helm (was Boot) ; Def +8, Mana +15

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #13 on: 2020-Mar-03 00:52 »
--v5-300

-- mutant eat meat to gain stats (was use item in battle)
  -- monster stat type, 2 bits per family * 36 families = 9 bytes, @33FF3 - 33FFB
  -- Families count
    -- MANA = 13
    -- AGL = 13
    -- STR = 10
    -- DEF = 5

-- mutant skills list
  -- Charm (was Warning)

-- mutant starter skills
  -- Mutant M: Fire (was Flame)
  -- Mutant F: PsiForce (was Blizzard)

-- Remove DNA
  -- Plague gains Gas
-- Remove Multiply
  -- Plague, Pathogen, Corpuscl gain Mirror

-- OdinCrow 100% chance drop meat

 --Human and Mutant stat growth rate
    --Human
       --HP: 2%+8% per level
       --Str, Agl, Mana: 2%+24% per level
    --Mutant
       --Skill: 16%+20% per level
       --HP: 2%+16% per level
       --Str, Agl, Mana, Def: 2%+48% per level
    --new: 00 00 04 10 04 30 04 30 04 30 00 00 00 00 00 00
             20 28 04 20 04 60 04 60 04 60 04 60 00 00 00 00
« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-03 01:17 by Den »

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #14 on: 2020-Mar-05 18:38 »
[[Mutant Musings]]

Mutants are too consistent, repetitive, unchanging. Needs more compelled, involuntary shakeup.

Robots need to constantly upgrade with better gear. Humans weapons will run out and need to be replaced. Monsters evolve to different monsters with all new skill sets. On the contrary, Mutants can go through the whole game with the same three skills.

Again compare FFL1 was too chaotic, and FFL2 was too safe. But we can split the difference to make FFL2 Mutants less predictable and repetitive. One method is each skill has increasing chances to be replaced.

= #1 skill = 0% (never replaced, safe to keep)
= #2 skill = 12%
= #3 skill = 25%
= #4 skill = 100% replaced if all above skills failed rolls for replacement

So #1 skill will never be replaced. #2 and #3 have 12% and 25% chances, respectively, of getting replaced. Then #4 will be ta fall back skill to be replaced when all previous skills remain the same. This way Mutants cannot rely on the same skills throughout the entire game. Would make them more exciting, mutating.

[[Other minor balance changes]]

- PsiForce uses halved
- More AGL monsters, fewer STR
? Lower DS requirements ?
« Last Edit: 2020-Mar-05 19:37 by Den »

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #15 on: 2020-Mar-05 22:32 »
@Den

Whew...been a rough week  >_<"
Tornados are no joke and have power again.
Anyhow, make have to pick your brain on how to edit these "Heart Icons" later

Also, looks like the game had a few updates since I was last online !
Looking forward to how Monster-Meat works with mutants now.
So it looks like Mutants gain stats upon eating meat
Would they also be able to learn a set skill/trait with this method ?

Very happy to see that you are sharing your progress with your hack !
It brings lots of excitement and joy when I notice the changelog has been updated.

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #16 on: 2020-Jul-23 01:12 »
Again compare FFL1 was too chaotic, and FFL2 was too safe. But we can split the difference to make FFL2 Mutants less predictable and repetitive. One method is each skill has increasing chances to be replaced.
I liked the safety of FFL2 ;D

FFL (GB/WSC) had one-way humans who always improve, have maximum equipment slots, and with some preparations, only needed a minimum amount of extra item slots. Grinding gold was tedious though. Espers had half the equipment slots, we're chaotic to grow (unsure when and what changed or improved); there was always a danger of becoming a liability that couldn't be overcome by 4 equipments. Monsters could grind levels, but once you achieve end-game, you could experiment fairly safely rather than load up on expensive restorative cabins and keep your current form. Uniform teams weren't encouraged and mixes would utilize the shared inventory more efficiently.

FFL2 was incredibly munchkin friendly. Humans grew quickly and specialized in everything. Espers had cheap skills and better skill management. Monsters... Were not balanced; you needed Elixirs if you found a good one and wanted to keep it (because most others were terrible); there were few specific opportunities to get a good one to plan around. Glitches aside, Robots easily scaled with treasure found; with glitches they became unstoppable.

Brayze/Skygor's monster hack. Solely focused on raising the floor for monsters. Every single one became a viable option, and random encounters were more dangerous for it. There was no limiting of overkill abilities (ceiling) so there was no guilt of abusing them to stay competitive as fights became more explosive. New players would have to learn combat nuances to retain their advantage.

neoFFL2 v5.1 was the big rework with row-target attacks, almost no "All" attacks, and a revamped weapons list. Every fight was a strategy session; do you target clusters of enemies, or fight them in waves? Bows as AGI weapons was nice, though STR weapons were still secondary. This felt like a new game, and pretty balanced. Robots were a grind to glitch, but otherwise needed more than just dungeon treasures to keep pace. Espers are viable throughout the game, but with limited skill learning, rely on buying books making them more human. Monsters are less viable early on (No flame vs groups) but catch up later. Humans were untested. An all-monster team was a challenge in Base world, got a wake-up call at Guardian's base, and struggles at endgame with no DS A/B advantage. All-Robot teams would be on par with humanoids; prohibitively expensive to equip, but easier to grind.

V5.3 was again very different. Espers were throttled by the need to eat meat, taking a choice away from monsters. But with a lack of good monsters, this was just a choice of who to prioritize. Strength weapons were more powerful here, and fewer relied on agility to connect. Spears were incredibly valuable when compared to cannons, though bows were less powerful. FFL1-levels of time had to be dedicated to grind because teams don't uniformly improve; between Gil to shop, meat to evolve, and one meat per fight, even mixed teams get bottlenecked. Less of an issue later on, when encounters are denser, but it really hurts the beginning; robots loaded with cheap equipment is the shortcut I used. The new radar robot was different; no Pa/Po was an adjustment but Warning was useful throughout. Some dual skills were still buggy (o-Qu/x-Th didn't have the "x" part) and certain floor tiles now glitch after the inventory screen goes up and there's a memory issue for no-save runs when a critical or unavoidable hit happens (the game freezes when Excalibur or Gungnir or a mighty blow occurs, but if I save in-game then reset and load, the glitch no longer happens).

As an idea for more chaos, how about status-down gains? Or more class-exclusive items? (What checks does self fix do to only work on robots)

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Re: neoFFL2 : Official Topic
« Reply #17 on: 2020-Sep-04 16:03 »
Pokémon also has a skill usage durability called PP. If all moves run out of PP or otherwise disabled, the Pokémon will perform a hidden attack called Struggle. A weak attack that also damages the user.

FFL2 also has a hidden move for such situations, however it does nothing.

Should we make it more like Struggle and deal some damage or other effect? On one hand, it really sucks to do nothing in combat. On other hand, it teaches you to be always prepared and vigilant about your party's status and equipment.
« Last Edit: 2020-Sep-04 16:08 by Den »

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Elements, Ailments
« Reply #18 on: 2020-Sep-04 17:48 »
8 elements, 8 ailments.

Originally 8 ailments belong to only 3 elements. One such element even covers 6 different ailments. Due to overhaul to skills, should ailments be realigned to a unique element?

Consider:

ElementAilment
 Poison Pois
 Storm Blnd
 Ice Para
 Fire Curs
 Quake Conf
 Weapon Stun
 Petrify Petr
 Psychic Slep


if following this route, Resistances would also have to be scrutinized and redistributed. Especially bosses. For them, maybe a skill that has a chance to autoheal one ailment at end of turn.
« Last Edit: 2020-Sep-05 05:33 by Den »

 

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